Guilbault, Bonnardel weren’t fully informed about SAAQClic cost overruns, commission hears
Ruby Pratka, Local Journalism Initiative reporter
editor@qctonline.com
MONTREAL – In remarkable testimony before the Gallant commission on Aug. 22, Transport Minister Geneviève Guilbault claimed she had only learned about the millions of dollars in cost overruns incurred by the failed launch of the Société de l’assurance automobile du Québec (SAAQ) online platform known as SAAQClic in February of this year, when Auditor General Guylaine Leclerc’s report revealed the overruns to the public.
The SAAQ is a Crown corporation that operates at arm’s length from the transport ministry (MTQ), with its own CEO and board of directors named by the government. Guilbault’s testimony painted a picture of Denis Marsolais and Konrad Sioui – respectively CEO and board chair of the SAAQ at the height of the crisis – as out of their depth and unaware of the scale of the problem and their own responsibilities. Guilbault claimed she was misled by Marsolais, her former boss in the public service. “We had hundreds of conversations …and I did not know he had signed any addenda [on a contract with a third-party supplier which approved cost overruns],” Guilbault told the commission, presided over by Commissioner Denis Gallant. “The first time I saw the figure of $1.1 billion [the estimated total cost of the failed project] was in the auditor general’s report.” However, the commission heard that in June 2023, Marsolais’ successor Éric Ducharme presented Guilbault’s office with a document detailing the cost overruns; Guilbault, whose testimony was otherwise precise, initially said she had no memory of seeing the document with her own eyes, before acknowledging under oath that she was aware of cost overruns of over $200 million in June 2023. She denied that she or her office deliberately misled taxpayers. “He [Marsolais] was well aware of that and he never told me.” As late as March 2024, with the approval of Guilbault and Finance Minister Éric Girard, Cabinet raised the cap on the amount of money the SAAQ was allowed to borrow.
Guilbault’s testimony also raised wider governance questions. She noted that while cost overruns on a project directly controlled by the MTQ need to be approved by the Treasury Board, Crown corporations “can spend hundreds of millions of [additional] dollars without communicating.” She testified that while overruns equivalent to more than 10 per cent of the total value of a contract need to be flagged to the Treasury Board, each of the successive overruns approved by Marsolais was just under the threshold. She claimed she discovered Marsolais’ strategy in the auditor general’s report.
She also noted that when she took over the transport portfolio from current public safety minister François Bonnardel after the October 2022 election, the two did not discuss SAAQClic – or CASA, as it was then known – as part of the handover.
Six months later, while Guilbault was on a public transit fact-finding mission in Europe, SAAQClic was launched – before it had been thoroughly tested – and crashed on arrival. She described the planning of the shutdown of the old platform and relaunch of the new one as “very deficient.” She cut her overseas trip short and, as she described it, “took charge of the whole thing” for several weeks. “I said, Denis [Marsolais], this is a zoo, what in the world is going on here (C’est le bordel; c’est quoi c’t’affaire-là)? Weren’t you ready?” The situation was exacerbated by the fact that 70 per cent of SAAQ service points were operated by third-party contractors (often municipalities), limiting the agency’s control over day-to-day operations. “How do you expect us to take control and correct the problem if we don’t know what’s going on at 70 per cent of the service points?” In closing remarks, Guilbault said the agency was going through an “accountability crisis.”
Guilbault said she and current interim SAAQ CEO Annie Lafond, who took over from Ducharme after he was shown the door in July, were eager to “start cleaning house” once the work of the commission wraps up. Guilbault may not be in place to lead that transformation; a Cabinet shuffle is expected shortly after Labour Day. When Guilbault was sworn in, she identified herself as MNA for the Quebec City riding of Louis- Hébert, not by her ministerial title.
‘We were all tarnished’
Bonnardel, testifying the day before Guilbault, also heaped blame on the SAAQ and par- ticularly on Marsolais. He denied that his office knowingly misled Quebecers. He raised similar concerns regarding communication between his predecessor as transport minister, Liberal Laurent Lessard; then-SAAQ CEO Nathalie Tremblay, who was close to retirement; and his office when he came to power in 2018. “Why the SAAQ did not give me the whole picture when I started [as transport minister] in 2018, I don’t know that even today,” he said. “Every $100 that we spend adds up to billions, and every extra thousand that we pay must be defended and explained,” said Bonnardel. “The SAAQ was tarnished and we all were tarnished and Quebecers are seeing it today and they don’t deserve that.”
Hearings continue this week in Montreal. A complete list of those expected to testify was not available at press time, although Health Minister and former Treasury Board president Christian Dubé, former cybersecurity minister Éric Caire and current Treasury Board president Sonia LeBel are expected to testify in the next few days. Radio-Canada reported on Aug. 25 that they may be followed by Premier François Legault.